Monday, October 31, 2016

Will PC Wu waste our tax dollars if NOT elected? Will Bare have a quorum?

Election day is November 8.  PC Wu is running against CJ Lewis for the District 1 seat.  The following week is the National League of Cities City Summit from November 16-19, 2016 in Pittsburgh. PC Wu is registered to go at City expense.

Questions:

  • Will PC Wu skip his last Council meeting to go to the conference?
  • Why should we pay thousands of dollars to send him if District 1 fires him?
  • Is it more ethical for the City to obtain a refund or send another Councilperson?
If District 1 fires him, is it ethical for him to travel to a seminar at City expense when he leaves office the following Tuesday?

How will that expense in any way benefit the City?

Another question:

With three Council members attending the conference, is everyone else confirmed to attend?
Will Bare even have a quorum for his last meeting as President?


13 comments:

Anonymous said...


Another question is "How will the expense of sending THREE council members to Pittsburgh for a summit in any way benefit the City?" These lazy-ass council members won't even show up for more than one council meeting per month but fall all over themselves to get on board for a FREE road trip! How many of them would be going to Pittsburgh if they were doing it on their own nickel?

Anonymous said...

All those conferences and not one single idea or project brought back and implemented. Vote for C.J. Lewis and let's start work in District 1

Anonymous said...

Didn't one of the firemen get in trouble for a free rental car upgrade? Just shows how ridiculous that whole thing was. More of our tax dollars wasted.

George Hawthorne said...

I would say that, I may disagree on PC Wu's support for the Mayor's foolishness and not fighting for council autonomy, HOWEVER, I would NEVER question his integrity, ethics or honesty. This is an honorable man that would not misuse taxpayers' money like that.

VOTE CJ Lewis, for a leader that will uphold the charter and fight for his district!

Anonymous said...

This would make a great GEICO commercial. "PC Wu will continue to waste our tax dollars on unnecessary, lavish trips. When you're a feckless, spineless politician working on behalf of the mayor, the GOBs and yourself, THAT'S WHAT YOU DO!

Anonymous said...


P.C. Woo-woo has been "misusing taxpayer money" for as long as I can remember. And, yes, I do remember how he stomped his foot and promised that the CMP would not cost a penny over $40 million! He really held his ground on that one, didn't he? As a matter of fact, Woo-woo told me to my face that the CMP was going to "pay for itself" without the need for a taxpayer subsidy. How could someone be that flipping idiotic? It is hard to tell if Woo-woo has "integrity, ethics, or honesty" when all you see are tire tracks running up and down his back! The people he serves are NOT the common citizens of Pensacola.

George Hawthorne said...

Anonymous 1:42 -

CMP COULD HAVE BEEN paying for itself if the Mayor would have accepted the developer proposals that he DENIED over the last 5 years. However, I still stand by my comments to PC Wu's positive character attributes and agree with yours about getting "run-over" at City Hall. CJ will be a much better advocate for District 1.

Anonymous said...


If you believe that a taxpayer-funded $120 million baseball stadium for a sub-minor league baseball team will ever "pay for itself" I have some property twenty miles south of Pensacola Beach that I would love to sell you! Some of you, especially those of you like George Hawthorne who got in on the gravy train, have developed amnesia regarding the Fantasy Money-Making Real Estate Development. The CMP was sold to the public as a "public-private" project. Although the Chief Promoter demanded plenty of public money he could never identify any private money. The private money didn't exist then and it doesn't exist now, twelve years later. There have never been any legitimate "development proposals" for the property. Yes, a REAL for-profit development could have been successful on forty acres of waterfront property. Unfortunately, an out-of-scale baseball stadium has made that property almost worthless from a development standpoint. Don't believe me? Go out and look at the empty lots surrounding the baseball stadium.

George Hawthorne said...

To 10:52AM

It's mis information like you are providing that is misleading to the truth about the "value" and cost of the CMP. Many folks, like to "spout" out figures as "fact" and they aren't true and confuse the analysis of the CMP in "public opinion", basically, "garbage in, garbage out" conclusions. Let me tell the facts as someone that WAS actually there daily going through every budget and contract.

First, let's get some FACTS straight about the CMP COSTS, the project cost $56M to build "all-in." The stadium cost $21M; the environmental remediation, dirt infill to FEMA elevation, utility infrastructure and roads costs $20M; soft-costs, finance and legal fees cost $15M total project cost of appx. $56M.

There is a $40M Buy America Bond and $16M in NMTC equity/debt that is forgiven after ne3xt year - SO given the amortization on the bonds there is about $36M in debt against the property.

The debt-service and other holding costs are about $3.6M annually paid from stadium revenue, studer property, beck property and special events fees - about $1.5 annually. However, that should be far more but it isn't because the City manages all special events and facilities at the CMP and they are incapable of creating income from operations.

The "4 of the 7 undeveloped-parcels" have had development proposals that have been denied or run-away by the shenanigans at city hall. There were 3 proposals by Studer (YMCA,UWF/Entrepreneur Center and retail site next to stadium)that would have added another $1.5 in debt-service income. Then for 2 parcels, the Miami developer proposal that was run-away by Ashton, CBRE and CMPA that would have created more income to provide the balance of the debt-service.

Then there would still be 2 parcels lefts and a vibrant waterfront park that has the ability to generate income and serve public needs.

The "problem" is people are "hypocritical", they want to "whine" about the Studer's and their so-called "stadium" and how the "taxpayers" are paying for his park. However, fail to realize that "his stadium" DOES pay for its share of the costs of the CMP project ($20M and Studer paid $5M of HIS cash towards stadium) and MORE.

Furthermore, he has already proposed developments that would have paid for almost all of the debt-service BUT the MAYOR denied them.

Anonymous said...


Using George Hawthorne's "facts" we can calculate that the stadium project cost $56 million + $36 million = $92 million. But wait, George has left out the value of 40 acres of waterfront property situated in downtown Pensacola. It would be nice if, when we purchase a new home, the lot is thrown in for free and you only have to pay for the construction cost. The world does not work the way that George imagines it. A very, very old appraisal of the property put the value of the land at $18 million. If I recall correctly, that appraisal was performed when the property was still owned by the Trillium Corporation. So at the very least, and under a very optimistic scenario, the CMP will cost the taxpayers of Pensacola $110 million. That's using George Hawthorne's numbers. There are many, many costs that the city hid and that the city is still hiding.

As I stated earlier, there have been no LEGITIMATE development proposals for the property. No one in Pensacola voted for a YMCA or a UWF building, both of which are tax-free entities that wanted the same sweetheart deal (or better!) that Studer got for his stadium lease. There was no "retail site" in Studer's proposal. There was a vague mumbling about a workout room for his baseball players and a day care facility. None of this came close to matching what Studer sold to us prior to the election. And what happened to that Miami developer and his hotel? If I recall, the hotel proposal required that the city build a parking garage for the hotel. That's not what any of us would call a "legitimate" proposal.

George Hawthorne wants to separate the stadium from the rest of the property and tell us that Studer is paying for "his" part of the park. The problem is, there are no other "parts". Almost everything out there belongs to Studer and is for his for-profit use.

Please tell us, George, how much was your share of the gravy train?

Anonymous said...


More for George Hawthorne -

You can't keep blaming the failure of the CMP on the present mayor. Yes, Ashton Hayward is an idiot, but he was still trying to sell real estate when this deal went down. What you can do, however, is blame this failure on the FALLACY concept that a city government, particularly Pensacola's city government, can function as a real estate developer. The previous and present mayors and city council members do not have the knowledge, experience, or temperament to pull off a complicated "multi-use" commercial development. Most of these fools thought that Quint Studer was going to do everything for them, probably because that's exactly what Studer implied that he was going to do. I think the phrase went something like "build it (a baseball stadium, for crying out loud!) and they will come!" Even when they invented the CMPA they couldn't help themselves and had to fill it with political patsies instead of knowledgeable professionals. This is the way our city government works, and is exactly why this project was doomed from the outset. Studer got his baseball stadium and the taxpayers got 30 years of mortgage payments. End of story!

Anonymous said...

I wonder how much the planned Maritime Museum would be draining the community right now had it been built as planned. The one built in Mobile a few years ago is closing due to lack of paying attendance. They predicted 300,000 visitors for their first year but in reality over a number of years they only attracted 80,000 people. The city of Mobile paid 30 million dollars for the building, the museum has not paid its rent in months and the city is currently owed 400,000 dollars in unpaid electricity bills.

http://wkrg.com/2016/11/04/gulfquest-maritime-museum-closing-to-public-due-to-low-attendance-financial-woes/

Anonymous said...


Yes, there was a frantic rush on to build a Maritime Museum so that Pensacola could beat Mobile to the punch (and go bankrupt faster!). I believe that the museum in Mobile charges an admittance fee while, incredibly, the promoters of the museum here claimed that admittance would be free! The whole thing drifted into the Twilight Zone when the promoters told us that an aquarium like the one in Atlanta would be included. The aquarium in Atlanta had a construction cost of over $200 million and has a yearly operating budget of $20 million. There was literally NOTHING that the promoters wouldn't say or do to get the city's taxpayers to finance a baseball stadium for them.

For a trip down memory land, check out this web site to see what one promoter was pushing. At the end of the article he tells us "...through the incremental tax increases of the CRA, (the CMP) will pay the City back! It will cost the Citizens NOTHING…!”

http://www.brownmarine.com/maritime-park.htm